If I had to choose between Dreyfus and Clark, I would choose Dreyfus. Dreyfus believes that the body has significance and relevance. There are so many things that our bodies just do naturally without really thinking about it. For example, a basketball player naturally shoots the ball without thinking “ok, I’m going to bend my knees and shoot the ball.” I agree with Dreyfus and his views on embodiment. One of Dreyfus’s arguments is distance learning. He believes that you need the body interaction in order to get the full experience. I agree with this argument because take tennis, for example. There is no way that you get the same experience from learning the rules online or playing Nintendo Wii as you do when you actually play. Nintendo Wii goes through the motions of hitting the ball, but the timing and contact are much different when actually playing. Also, there is no way you can perfect a serve through the internet or through Nintendo Wii. When you embody skills, they become natural and you can begin to master these skills. Another argument made by Dreyfus has to do with interpersonal relationships. When people are in a disembodied relationship, they miss out on risk and significance. For example, can you honestly say that you get the same experience from a kiss (Muah) sent through instant messenger as you do from an actual embodied kiss? There is no way. Technological relationships are not as fulfilling as embodied relationships. I happen to hate talking to my boyfriend through instant messenger because there are so many times when words are taken the wrong way. You can’t feel or see any emotion expressed by that person. I find it frustrating and I do not think I would ever be able to have a technological relationship. Finally, there is no risk associated with technological relationships. I agree with Dreyfus on this argument because people are willing to do and say things on the internet that they would not do in person. I even think it is so much easier to tell someone bad news, or anything really, online. The risk of the person freaking out at you or hitting you is gone. Overall, I agree that body interaction is much more significant than online interaction.
4.30.07
Kimberly Koch | 23-Apr-07 at 7:50 pm | Permalink
the risk that you talk about in interpersonal relationships that is missing in technological relationships I think is also what is missing in distance learning. When you talk about playing tennis and how you can’t learn it through nintendo I think this is because you are also missing out on the risk. The risk of possibly getting hit by the ball or making a fool of yourself in front of your competitor for instance.
Jeremy Mcguire | 23-Apr-07 at 10:36 pm | Permalink
I agree with you about distance learning it will never work. You need the personal relationship with your teacher because then otherwise there is no consequence for your actions when you make a mistake. But I do have to agree with Clark though that technology like aim enhances our capabilities. No it is not perfect and does disembody us from the person we are talking to but I would rather have that tool at my disposal rather than not talk to the person at all.
William Barrett | 24-Apr-07 at 9:09 pm | Permalink
I think the basketball and tennis examples are good examples of how a person needs to learn a skill through embodiment and they cannot properly learn the skill over the internet. You learn such a skill as shooting a basketball through practice. Physical interactions with the sport of basketball make you a good basketball player. Learning the sport over the internet will basically help you with knowing what you are supposed to do and the mechanics involved in shooting a basketball, but you need that feel/touch from embodiment to know how to play and be able to play basketball.
I also like the example in losing risk over the internet when it is much easier for people to give bad news, etc. to people over the internet because the risk is not nearly as felt as when giving a person the same bad news in person. This is why it is much easier for someone to break up with another person over the phone in a relationship because they are not in person and do not feel that emotion and presence of the other person.
Ashley Graham | 25-Apr-07 at 1:37 pm | Permalink
I agree that there are some activities which require your physical participation. As you said, Wii tennis is not the same as real tennis, no matter how much fun it is! I think that learning is a much less physical act, and does not require you to physically be there, in class. On-line classes can work, as long as the student is motivated and dedicated to learning, not just trying to take tests and pass the class. Similarly, TV classes can work, as long as the desire to learn is there. If distance learning is impossible, then why are there so many how-to books. There is an “Idiot’s guide to…” just about everything. I can read a book then learn how to build a chair, I did not need someone to be there physically and teach me. Distance learning is definitely possible. It just depends on the dedication and honesty of the learner.
Fernando Londono | 25-Apr-07 at 2:39 pm | Permalink
I agree to a point of embodiment in which you mention that individuals cannot physically comprehend the interatction of hitting a tennis ball without actually hitting a tennis ball. Physical motion and practice are the two best teachers for muscle memory in any sport. Although I must admit though if I were learning about tennis and I’ve never seen or heard about it, I would definitely find infomration on the internet as to the skills, rules, tools etc. used in playing that sport. I think I would be a better overall player if I simulated a game (Wii Tennis) and applied the inforatmion I found, rather than if I just started playing. But yeah without an actual racket and tennis ball your not going to be good regardless, because like you said we must first embrace then master the skills and that can only be accomplished through physical interaction.
Andrea Fish | 25-Apr-07 at 4:18 pm | Permalink
Body interaction is definitely more significant than Internet interaction, but that’s not to say that the Internet isn’t a great tool to improve the skill. Take your tennis example and consider how long it might take someone on the court to think of all the rules and regulations that you need to remember to properly play the game. Reading them on the internet could save you a lot of time and energy and allow you to actually practice your swings instead of worrying about which line makes it a foul or not.
Ashley Swarts | 25-Apr-07 at 6:26 pm | Permalink
I think that Amanda made some really good points about Dreyfus’ views on disembodiment and distant learning. The example of learning to play tennis online would obviously not be the same as learning by physically using your body. Although I believe there are some classes that can be taught on the internet, I think the embodiment rule applies to the majority of learning. Instead of considering a sport such as tennis, you could consider a pre-med student. Can he or she really learn everything they need to know, such as surgery, through simulations on-line as well as practicing it in person? I don’t think anybody could agree with this because then they would basically be saying they would feel comfortable having this person operate on them.
Ashley Swarts | 25-Apr-07 at 6:28 pm | Permalink
correction to my previous post:
“… through simulations on-line INSTEAD of practicing in person.”
oops!
Krystal Kniep | 25-Apr-07 at 7:34 pm | Permalink
I think Amanda brought up some important points about Dreyfus and embodiment. The tennis example was a perfect example how the “real” experience is totally different than playing on a computer. As they always say, “practice makes perfection”, and the only way you can perfect a sport is to physically do it. Through a computer, I know you can understand the concept of the game and know all the tricks to it, but you have to have the skill and strength to be good at it.
Brian Horn | 25-Apr-07 at 9:51 pm | Permalink
I agree that there is no way that you can get the same experience through distance learning that you can through the actual human interaction with a given task or object. Like the post brings up tennis on the Wii compared to actually playing tennis. You may be able to return a tennis ball on every serve on your Wii, but let’s see if you could actually translate that skill into returning a real serve. You may understand the movements you’ll need, but you most likely will not be able to return the serves with the same frequency as on the Wii.
John Creger | 26-Apr-07 at 11:25 am | Permalink
In regards to your comments on risk. Wouldnt you say that there is more risk on the internet because you are promoting yourself more freely, thus saying most everything you want to say? Rather than in real life, if you are an introverted person, you more likely not to confront or express yourself because you are agraid of the consequences- you arent taking risks. I agree that online you avoid the direct reactions (good or bad) of the person you speak to, but for some reason I think the more you say, the more you risk.
Ryan Marshall | 26-Apr-07 at 4:46 pm | Permalink
I agree that distance learning won’t work because of the lack of a personal relationship. It is necessary, I believe for someone to interact with others and more importantly with their teacher on a personal basis. Talking to someone over the computer or some sort of connection is just not the same as in person and does not create the social skills associated with learning in a personal environment. Because of this need for personal and social interaction it is safe to say, in my opinion, that distance learning, on a widespread basis will never work.
Ryan Riordan | 26-Apr-07 at 6:37 pm | Permalink
I definitely agree that a personal relationship is much better and more fulfilling when it is actually in person rather than through the internet or some other technological venue. This is because in person you can read body language. Computers read text syntax, but humans read body language in addition to that, and that is invaluable. As for Dreyfus’s argument on distance learning, i half agree with him. In cases that involve muscle memory, like shooting a basketball, i believe there is no other valuable way to learn. However, if the learning is a type of scholarly or academic learning, then i see no difference or disadvantage to learning through a tool like the internet as long as the material is reliable. Like anything, people must realize that the Internet has both positive and negative aspects to it.
John Rooney | 26-Apr-07 at 8:35 pm | Permalink
I disagree with your views on distance learning. I agree that players of the Wii would not likely be good players of tennis, but this is not the purpose of the game. It is simply a means of having fun and is not in anyway a training exercise. All branches of our military and even NASA currently use simulators in order to aid in training their soldiers and pilots. If its good enough for NASA, it’s good enough for me.
Jeffery Villalobos | 26-Apr-07 at 9:23 pm | Permalink
Distance learning is so true. it is so much harder to try to learn something with the aid of someone in person. reading text or having someone try to convey a message to you over email or AIM is quite difficult. you have to decode a message that might not be clear. people do not always have the best communication skills via writing, but i do realize that people may have poor verbal skills. even with poor verbal skills, i feel that communicaiton would be easier between people in person than through written communication.
Jaren Gaddi | 26-Apr-07 at 10:41 pm | Permalink
RE: Distance learning
I feel that distance learning is a great supplementary tool, but it is not the same as a full face-to-face learning experience. There are things you definitely can learn without having an instructor’s guiding hand leading the way, but that guiding hand can take your learning a lot further than just reading about things or practicing a simulation of an event. I could learn the game of tennis through effective video simulations, but it would not be the same as having a tennis coach helping my learn and develop my technique.